Science and theology have always seemed to conflict, particularly with regards to the universe and the meaning of our existence in world politics, conservative politics, and understanding politics in America.
Many religious people believe that, if the universe in general and humanity specifically were created seemingly at random through the Big Bang and evolution, then existence itself is meaningless. Believers dismiss the scientific evidence because they do not like the only reasonable conclusions that, to them, result from these premises. However, this is a logical fallacy. Once cannot ignore a fact simply because one does not like what an acceptance of that fact may mean.
Scientist-theologians take a more balanced approach by stating that people must first deduce the factual basis of the universe and then make theological and philosophical deductions based on the evidence. (The opinion that "God caused the Big Bang" is a simplified view of this thinking.) Another example of this approach is described in this Salon article:
...more and more physicists point to various laws of nature that have to be calibrated just right for stars and planets to form and for life to appear. For instance, if gravity were just slightly stronger, the universe would have collapsed long before life evolved. But if gravity were a tiny bit weaker, no galaxies or stars could have formed. If the strong nuclear force had been slightly different, red giant stars would never produce the fusion needed to form heavier atoms like carbon, and the universe would be a vast, lifeless desert. Are these just happy coincidences? The late cosmologist Fred Hoyle called the universe "a put-up job." Princeton physicist Freeman Dyson has suggested that the universe, in some sense, "knew we were coming."
Religious people who appreciate science believe that the fine-tuning of the universe that enables it to support life -- albeit, as far as we know, on one planet out of trillions -- is proof that the universe was designed. This, of course, is one small step away from stating that a Creator God exists.
But the anthropic principle in cosmology stands in the way of making theological statements based on this scientific observation. The principle essentially states that if the universe's fine-tuning had been slightly off, then we would not be here in the first place to observe that it had been off. If there had been a 0.00000001% chance that the universe would randomly develop the needed characteristics to sustain life, then the scientific response is that "we lucked out" -- that 0.00000001% chance, in fact, occurred. The complex nature of the universe, then, is not proof of a Creator God.
I'm a liberally-religious Jew and someone who, particularly as a former journalist, is passionate about discovering factual, objective truth whenever possible. But I don't see an inherent contradiction between the two because religion and science, to me, operate in completely different realms. The two systems can rarely, if ever, relate to each other successfully in each other's paradigms. Religion, at its best, can provide the basis for ethical systems and philosophical understandings -- the indescribable, spiritual underpinnings of existence. Science can teach us the physical basis of existence and improve our daily lives through technology.
Ne'er the twain shall meet, and they do not need to. Whenever religion attempts to enroach upon science, religion places itself in peril. The myths of religion are not science -- they are metaphors that teach ethical, personal and societal precepts.
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In either instance rather it be theological or scientific.We’er all still guessing so lets leave it up to someone who really knows.GOD gary key(Quote)
I have put together a presentation showing images of the universe, an atom, and a strand of DNA. The largest and the smallest things we can conceive of are identical. Within us dwells a universal consciousness where everything is known. We have the ability to transform our ideas into reality and to perceive all that is in our reality. We share a spirit among all life as well. Science and religion are not contingent on our full understanding of the distinct differences or general similarities of both. We are evolving to a better understanding of that for which we came here to learn. The purpose of our physical form is to acknowledge that there are physical limitations we must overcome to blend with the spirit of our future destiny. Maureen Burgess(Quote)
I may be young, for I am only 13 years of age, but I have a theory that suggests how religion and science can prove each other to be factual. For instance, one idea is that The Big Bang happened, but the reason in happened is because of God. As a Catholic, I believe in God, but as a student, I believe in many of the logical and proven scientific findings and such, so I try my hardest to put them together, rather than choose one and call the other mythical or metaphorical. I do agree, however, that religion for many people can provide some ethical or moral foundations, for as humans we have a desire for something to believe in. but hey, im still a kid, so im still learning and trying to figure things out on my own.
Lauren(Quote)
i disagree with the thing that says that religious ppl dont like the big bang theory because it means that life is meaningless and they dont like it. we dont believe the big bang theory because its not true, not because we dont like it. also what about the “myths of religion”? theyre not myths. theyre true. oh ya, and how small of a chance is it that the universe formed PERFECTLY right for us?? so small that it seems a stretch to deem it “lucky”. btw, how did the big bang occur? what caused that? the big bang doesnt even explain the universe fully. lauren(Quote)
big bang is ture and does not contraadict religion.
if you want to see science and religion proving each other, go to http://www.quranmiracles.com Ardit(Quote)
Some Worthwhile Reading… « Panning for God // May 16, 2008 at 22:21
I think you should check out Teilhard de Chardin’s Divine Milieu. While certainly written from a Catholic perspective (he was a Jesuit priest, after all), his thinking isn’t far off from the idea of tikkun olam, and he sees no contradiction in science and religion – or integrating the two. Jeff(Quote)
I prefer to pursue my understanding of God through logic and science. All matter is made up of molecules, is made up of atoms, is made up of protons, neutrons and electrons, is made up of quarks, is made up of a singular energy. It is this singular energy that comprises and composes all of existence that I choose to label God. It is every one and every thing and its answers are self evident. Does God judge? Observe! Does the sun cease to shine on the sinner? Does the earth open to swallow him at his feet? No! There is no judgement. The sun shines on all, and all is accepted. What each chooses to do is their own, and we live the consequences of our actions. The only hell that exists is the hell that we imagine and create for ourselves.
I could go on … but I’ve said enough for now. Thank you for allowing me to share my perspective!
Namaste,
Lina
PS … If God is the substance that composes and creates literally everything … that means that you and I are God, too. We are the same energy. We create. What we create is up to us.
automaticlifechanges.com alinaphoenix(Quote)
You either believe in God or you don’t, so stop making excuses for why you don’t serve Him completely. “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth”. Simple! How He did it is not that simple to us yet. If you have a plasma TV for instance, and do not know how it is made, do you doubt or question the fact that somebody made it? No, you would be called names with a less-intelligent meaning to it.
Judgement is definitely coming, no doubt. We are living in a time of God’s grace. As long as you are still alive, you still have a chance to except Him as Saviour. No other way to heaven, which by the way, does exist, just as sure as hell does. If you are trying to understand God through logic and science, you will never get to know the One true God, Jesus Christ. You will end up with a false god which you have created.
Get to know God and His power, and science will start making more sense to you. You can not approach this the other way around.
God is real! God is with us! God is calling to you! Praise His name forever, He is worthy! Let the whole earth rejoice, for He reigns! Wynand Morgan(Quote)
sadistic if u believe in fiery hell, and twisted, ANY god tht wud create humans to punish millions to hell forever is NOT acceptable and if it does exist then i am deeply hurt by “god” and cnt believe he wud do tht especially to nice ppl hu just dont believe its just not morally right jhjkhl(Quote)
religion is aload of shit , god is not real, how could some thing called god create. the universe is made up of gases, atoms, protons until they collide together things start to create dark matter(Quote)
Attempting to move the mountain rather than myself is like trying to sum up the universe rather than observing it from my limited perspective. When I was a child, I thought of myself as a speck of dust in a shoe box in the back of a dusty closet. Then I had to imagine my closet in a house, in a yard, on a street, in a town, in a state, on a continent, on the planet, in the solar system, in the galaxy, in a bigger shoe box, in a closet, in a house, in a town.…and so on…i.e.… the ever expanding universe. A child can imagine it. It is the adult who believes it has to end somewhere, and of course, it ends with anthropomorphic characteristics applied to imagined matter. We want to be as gods, so we construct gods in the image of ourselves. God knows me because I am created from God. I will spend eternity in trying to know God. Donna(Quote)
Science and religious!! Religious is the form of science of some kind of invincible realm.. Science is structural form of existing realm.. Interference of religious to the science(one science over another) is somehow happenend due to imperfect metamorphosis of matter and time of space.. prof em(Quote)
Sam, “religious myths” should not be reduced to mere “metaphor.” I know you may think it only a semantic argument, but it’s one that need be made. A metaphor is flowery language used instead of the plain and simple truth. If truths revealed to us through religion were so plain and simple, however, we wouldn’t need need “myths” (yes, I realize you’re using a “technical” definition).
The truths to which religions point (and nearly all religions are ultimately, I believe, in agreement over the basics) cannot be – or as yet have not been, anyway – divined by scientific inquiry. Yet, that does not mean scriptures are wholly a-historical fantasies lacking veracity or that their writers did not believe in the literal truth of most, or at least some, of the ideas in their works.
Indeed, the idea of religion as metaphor has two enormous drawbacks. First, it implies that the composers of religious tradition (whether it be scripture or oral tradition) understood truths that they decided must be clothed in metaphor. That is to say, they were gnostics, possessors of secret knowledge that has been lost because they didn’t pass it down in words that mean literally what they meant. This, of course, is unlikely at best, requiring more faith than many religious beliefs themselves.
Second, religion-as-metaphor doesn’t last. The Greeks, we hear, thought of their religion metaphorically for centuries. Now, the only people who believe in those gods are Hellenist revivalist pagans, and even most of them probably don’t believe in the literal truth of the Greek myths.
To be sure, a literal interpretation of scriptures and oral traditions does them a disservice, trivializing the truths to which they point. On the other end of the scale, however, is what you suggest: religious beliefs as nothing more than allegories, parables, fables, fairy tales.
Your description thus comports well with the arguments of “strong,” or what I term “evangelical,” atheists. God is reduced to Santa Claus, holy scriptures to children’s books, faithful followers to deluded nincompoops.
If we allow all “myths” to be reduced to metaphor, scriptures are meaningless. The traditions that rely on those scriptures are thus meaningless, and so, too, our religious actions. Sacraments and religious services become a waste of time. Belief is exposed as mere delusion. Truth is reduced to that which has been experienced. Existence loses its mystery, and along with that, we lose insight into things science has yet to explain: life and death, consciousness, agency.
I therefore suggest that while some religious myths may, in fact, be parables, metaphors, most are a blend of the range of human experiences and ways of recording those experiences: history, music, storytelling, poetry, art. To see religion solely as a mechanism for describing ethics is to remove the savor from the salt. Jeff(Quote)
Knowing God is not a religion, but relation with the creator of the universe, doesn’t matter you bilieve or not, who Jesus is really our saviour of our life, and faith is not depend on our capability to understand with our small brain, God Bless You All H Djaja(Quote)
Our God who loves us made all this! Lee(Quote)
There is proof of a god. It says in a book thousands of years old. You can even get an old Bible from the 1700’s and compare it with this:
1) Take up a Bible and read Revelations
That’s pretty much all there is to it. It will prove EVERYTHING! I mean, it tells everything that has happened to us. It describes airplanes and even the Euro currency. It says that when flying machines and many countries that use the same currency exist, the end is near. It has lots of stuff from the past AND future. It is really easy to compare. And let’s say your a non believer. So what? What will it hurt you to try to find God? You give nothing up because you believe in nothing. So what do you have to lose? D Man(Quote)
there is a god who creates us and even the universe a man can say there is no god but can’t give a proof for it but a man who saya god ios there can give a proof for it vinoth kumar(Quote)
I feel that it is not any revelation that made religion to emerge, but it is mere fear upon human about his/her fate that caused religions to emerge, sui generis. Experience with number of persons portrays that each and every one moves his/her selection out of either fear or anger or some sort of greediness. In his/her pursuit of his/her own selection, he/she uses religion, god and the like. It is not only religion but one’s language, caste, race etc. that one uses to achieve one’s own selection.
In short, each and every believer of god unfailingly live the reality of chance in the name of providence. Of course there are genuine ones, but their strength is very very minority. Jesu(Quote)
It is wisemen and peacemakers who created the widespread organized religions that are practiced today. It is a fact that all of our religious texts and teaching, regardless of their reference source, were written by man. So why then are there so many people on both sides condemning views of others. Do any of our religions promote this? I think not. I feel people should be satisfied in whatever gives them comfort so long as it does not hurt any other. None of us can convert the minds of everyone, and trying to do so can only cause misery. There is not one single person in this vast world of ours that knows the answers to our great questions, and anyone who claims he does is made to look foolish. My respect however will always go to those ambitious many that use what we have available to humbley search for truth, knowing that that search will never end. God and true faith can not ever be disproved any more than scientific fact can, but every interesting thing we can learn makes life worth living everyday. Think of how much more we can accomplish if we try to understand all views instead of trying to figure out why they are wrong. I learn a great deal daily from listening to the views of others,and I wish the same for any wondering souls. Thanx for taking the time in your life to read and listen. PEACE. Joshua(Quote)
The endevour to conceive the creation of universe through the lens of mysticism in the form of God or its different variants,leaves me with the million dollar question that if God has created everything de-novo,then we should rather train our thoughts to search for that who is even more powerful to have created God & so on ———-to no reasonable conclusion. A. Banerjee(Quote)
The real question is: Did God create Man in God’s image, or did Man create God in Man’s image?
I personally do not follow religion, and I do not believe in God as depicted in Christian faiths. I do not believe in witchcraft and magic, as believing so is a fallacy of man which has hindered our development and slowed our technical progression.
Once life on another planet is found (and it will be found) the entire foundation of religion will crumble; that simple elegant notion that everything was created for us. The simple truth is it wasn’t.
Watch this youtube video, it explains my point quite well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNekfKfth6Y Matt(Quote)
To sum it all “GOD exist”. He made us in his own image and likeness. We are his sons and daughters called to do his will and obey his commands. Before you were formed in your mother’s womb he knows you. Believe it or not He shall come as a judge one day to judge and reign on this earth with his children. Asking a question of who made the universe is the worst thing any man can do to him or herself cos it will make you lose ur focus and destiny.
No man can be able to see were the foundations of this earth are and of the universe but he said in the bible that he laid a foundation . I know it sounds like a fallacy but you either live to experience his coming or you resurrect to face his judgment. The bible said he who has an ear let him hear. It pains me when i hear a mere mortal doubting the existence of God but it shall be like a thief in the night when he comes. Dont say no one told you. kaaata(Quote)
god is none but the result of an absolute and aware cosmic conciousness, as previously stated, the atom is identical to the universal structure, in which time is not percieved and space is an illusion of our corrupted empiricism– peace and love-everyone has a piece of god in their heart– avoid existential crisis, cover the truth esaswe ASHA(Quote)
The God and nature has seprate identity as per my opinion, bcos Nature has its physical existance and God is a beleife.
Universe has its physical existance and its a creature of Nature by Big bang.
We can do more deep study of the creation through Hindu mithology which are based on total scintific bases, their living, thinking and all about the life style.
If anybody wants to know more, we can discuss in details. Sanjeev Singhal(Quote)
If we can see that the universe with an immesuarable with the number known by human. so one thing is for sure that there is a Supreme Being how create all of this because it is more wiser to believe with an intelliengent mind that there a mighty who make all that we can see in the universe. visit our website: http://www.theoldpath.com
tnx. George I.Ibardaloza(Quote)
Sanjeev, just playing Devil’s advocate: Could not nature be God? (Baruch Spinoza thought so.) Sam Scott(Quote)